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Baxter Detention Centre shame - Multiple suicide attempts in a culture of neglect
by Elliot K - Perth Indymedia	2006-12-12 1:04 PM +0900
DECEMBER 12, 2006: Australia's litany of human rights abuses continue. Multiple suicide attempts at the Baxter Immigration Detention Centre in South Australia. Thirty people are staging a protest today after six people attempted to take their own lives inside the Baxter Detention centre near Port Augusta over the past week. Western Australian human rights group Project SafeCom said detainees had tried to hang themselves, while others had slashed themselves with broken glass and mirrors. The immigration department said a number of incidents had taken place over the past few days but none had resulted in serious injury to any inmates. The latest incident occurred on Tuesday morning... Last week two inmates and a security guard were injured when detainees jumped from a roof at Baxter...
More than 30 detainees are staging a protest at the Baxter maximum security complex. A Baxter detainee says a group of detainees blocked the front gate of the detention centre, and others are on a hunger strike. "It's just a process of long-term immigration detention, it's unnecessary, it's unreasonable," he said. "Any other country in the world - and Australia is a wonderful country - but any other country in the world, they detain you for 30 days, they identify you, then they release you. There is no purpose for us being here. We have been vilified by the Government in order to justify our detention. This is unfair." The Immigration Department says there have been six incidents in the past four days. It says two detainees jumped from the roof on Friday, a detainee climbed a tree on Saturday and was treated for heat exhaustion when he came down, and on Sunday another man climbed onto a roof before coming down again. Western Australian group Project SafeCom said the inmates, some asylum seekers refugees and others so-called "501s", had tried to hang themselves while some had also slashed themselves with broken glass and mirrors. "These incidents are no surprise," said project SafeCom spokesman Jack Smit. "The fact remains that Australia locks up people in detention centre jails such as Baxter which represent maximum security jails, wherever they are built around Australia. Mandatory detention is a bankrupt policy and these incidents form yet another layer in the hundreds of stories that affirm this." Despite detainees and guards being hospitalised, an immigration department spokesman said none of the recent incidents have resulted in serious injury to any inmates. The latest incident occurred on Tuesday morning and the inmate involved was currently being assessed, he said. The Immigration Department says one detainee jumped from the roof of a transportable building while being spoken to by staff. He was taken to Baxter's medical centre and was later taken to hospital. Rob Tolsen from the ambulance service says none of the injuries are life threatening. "They treated and stabilised two patients and transported them through to the Port Augusta Hospital," he said. "About half an hour later, we received a call for a third person who had sustained some injuries and we attended the Baxter detention centre again and transported that person through to the Port Augusta Hospital also." "Staff were speaking to the man when he jumped to the ground," a DIMA spokesman said. "A GSL officer caught the man before he reached the ground." 'GSL' are the UK-based Global Solutions Limited, who profit to the tune of $20 million a year from detaining refugees. Globally, GSL has more than 8000 employees, of whom 1064 are in Australia. Head Office for Australian operations is in Melbourne and the contract office for the Detention Services contract is located in Canberra. A Commonwealth Ombudsman report on 20 cases of wrongful immigration detention was released last week, further exposing the ill-treatment of people inside these gulags. Some chilling accounts include: "a child is locked up by government officials because of a computer glitch. Wrong data is on the files. No charge or court order is required to put him away, and no parent need be notified..." Critics of the government's harsh and inhumane regime of mandatory detention say after more than ten years of deliberate neglect, and a culture of systemic abuse, "criminals are treated better, with more respect for rights and due process." Adele Horin, writing in the Sydney Morning Herald says: "an out-of-control Department of Immigration is the legacy of John Howard's and Philip Ruddock's ruthlessness and Amanda Vanstone's casualness. Their combined efforts over a decade have created a culture in which at least 247 people, many of them Australian citizens or permanent residents, have been wrongly locked up in Villawood, Curtin or Baxter detention centres, or deported." The Commonwealth Ombudsman has examined the cases of 10 children wrongly detained - eight of whom were citizens - as well as nine adults, either citizens or residents with valid visas who were wrongly locked up by Immigration. He details the case of Mr G, who arrived here from East Timor in 1975, became schizophrenic and was detained for 43 days in 2002 even though he had a valid visa. Nevertheless, a monstrous $300 million detention facility is almost complete on Christmas Island. Despite last year's amendment to the Migration Act to ensure children would be detained only as a matter of last resort, the centre has a children's compound and classrooms. --- There were 170 persons who had their visas cancelled under Section 501, of which 52 left Australia in 2004-05. SOURCES:

ABC - Detainees in Baxter protest The West - Six SA detainees suicidal, say advocates News Ltd - Baxter inmates in suicide bids - claim ABC - Mental health assessment for Baxter detainee ABC - Three hospitalised after Baxter incidents The Age - Two detainees jump off roof at Baxter SMH - Brutal mix: ruthlessness and carelessness Global Solutions Limited Perth Indymedia - Six hangings at Baxter detention centre http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ma1958118/s501a.html
Link here Add multimedia to story Add links to story

Close Baxter Detention Centre now before someone dies
by Gem	2006-12-12 3:06 PM +0900
Greens Senator Kerry Nettle today called for the immediate closure of Baxter Immigration Detention Centre in the wake of multiple attempted suicides over the weekend. "News of attempted hangings, self inflicted slashings and detainees jumping from roofs is tragic and shocking. The Minister must bring on the inevitable and close Baxter now," Senator Nettle said. "Only 38 detainees remain in Baxter which has a capacity of over 500. These men could be rehoused in alternative detention in a matter of days. "The mental health record of the Baxter Immigration Detention Facility is appalling. The detainees should be moved into the community or to other facilities in Sydney or Melbourne. "These desert prisons are especially cruel because they isolate detainees from friends and family. The Government's mandatory detention policy breeds despair and in turn leads to these tragic attempted suicides." The Minister has the power to prevent these tragedies and she should act now. The Greens continue to insist for an end to mandatory detention of asylum seekers and the closure of desert prisons such as Baxter. Link here
Baxter detainees go on hunger strike
by SMH Reposted	2006-12-12 3:22 PM +0900
December 12, 2006 - 4:14PM :: About 30 detainees at the Baxter Detention Centre in South Australia began a hunger strike as others staged a peaceful protest at the centre's front gates. The federal immigration department confirmed the inmates had indicated they intended to stop eating on Tuesday afternoon. "The situation is being monitored closely by the department to ensure the health and wellbeing of all detainees is maintained," a department spokesman said. "Food and water is available at all times to detainees." The spokesman said about 15 detainees congregated around the front gates of Baxter in a peaceful protest to coincide with a planned visit by officials from the Commonwealth Ombudsman's Office. The protest was being monitored and local police were on standby in case of trouble. The action followed a series of confirmed incidents at Baxter over the past week including two in which detainees jumped from a roof at the centre... http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Baxter-detainees-plan-hunger-strike/2006/12/12/1165685669087.html Link here
Yeah right
by DefFx	2006-12-13 12:23 PM +0900
If they really were serious suicide attempts they would have done them properly where they couldnt be stopped, IE at night in a toilet cubicle, quietly slit your wrists and bleed to death in seclusion.But no, they tell everybody that their going to hang themselves so that someone is there to save them in time. These are nothing more than grandstanding attempts to focus media attention on an issue that deserves none. If they dont want to be kept in detention while their cases are assessed then they should stay in Indonesia or one of the other "halfway" countries that they travel through, instead of coming to Australia where they know they will be detained until their case is proven (or otherwise). Link here
Why reinstitutionalisation = abuse
by Parrot Press	2006-12-13 2:12 PM +0900
WA Opposition says report shows abuse of mental patients The Western Australian Opposition says a new report shows mental patients are suffering inhumane treatment such as being stripped naked, physically abused and administered medication without their consent. The problems have been detailed in the Council of Official Visitors annual report, which says three women at the Bentley facility were stripped naked, sometimes by male nurses. The Opposition's mental health spokeswoman, Helen Morton, says the report shows that voluntary patients were kept against their will in open wards. Others had been physically abused or locked up naked. WA's chief psychiatrist, Rowan Davidson, says clothing had been taken off some mental patients at the Bentley facility. He says staff thought it was necessary to do so for the patients' own protection, but these practices have changed to protect the rights of patients. "It was indeed a practice that was in place to try and improve a situation where it was thought that the patient would be in danger and unsafe in a situation, for instance where they might attempt suicide with articles of clothing," he said. Dr Davidson says it is sometimes necessary to medicate mental patients. "There may be occasions, even with a voluntary patient, where such is the danger to that person's safety and the safety of others that medication is given without consent." But he says there have been occasions when treatment has fallen below acceptable standards and these matters are investigated. "[It's] absolutely unacceptable that the patient should have a situation where their rights to dignity and respect are not maintained, and there is a requirement that services act on that," he said. WA Health Minister Jim McGinty has been unavailable for comment. http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200612/s1808668.htm Link here
Any excuse to be a racist fuckhead
by Benny	2006-12-13 2:32 PM +0900
"attempts to focus media attention on an issue..." Indeed. At least now the Ombudsman is visiting the Centre to try and fix up the systemic DIMA gulag mess. "...that deserves none." It deserves plenty, brother. Being jailed without trial or charge indefinitely? The infliction of massive mental health abuses, no access to lawyers, secretive deportations, ignoring the basic health needs of people, denying basic human rights... etc etc etc. These things should be major headlines. Or is it part of the australian psyche to ignore, or worse, hate people? "If they dont want to be kept in detention while their cases are assessed then they should stay in Indonesia or one of the other "halfway" countries that they travel through, instead of coming to Australia where they know they will be detained until their case is proven (or otherwise)." You haven't even read the fucking article. Otherwise you'd understand that most of these people are 501s. They didn't come through Indonesia. Its ignorant people like you I would still break out of detention. Despite your racist hype. AZADI! Link here
WTF
by DefFX	2006-12-13 4:16 PM +0900
Benny I find it a little offensive that you should begin with such a demeaning title but I guess if you have no case to argue......... You accuse me of not reading the article and then suggest that a visa class makes some difference to whether they came via another country to Australia, hullo! DO you read any articles on refugees, well if so you would hardly expect me to believe that refugees from say Afghanistan, or Somalia, flew direct to AUS on say Somalian airlines or Khyber Air? Wake up to yourself dewd they came through secondary countries on their way here. And although some maybe 501 visa what of the others? convieniently forgotten about them have we? And then of course there are your comments of being "jailed indefinitely" or "no access to a lawyer" or "ignoring basic health needs" all these comments are patently incorrect. Even the staunchest of refugee rights supporters will know that it is not indefinite detention, it is until their case is finalised, they do have access to legal representation (witness the huge industry around detainees legal claims) and they have access to health care and have health workers on site. Luckily "ignorant" people such as myself did not try to enter Australia without lawful permission or with permission and refused to leave, so I dont find myself needing to explain my case and therefore dont rely on people such as yourself to butt in when you are clearly ignorant yourself. Benny what do you really know of those in detention? have you heard their stories from friends? or perhaps you just believe the rhetoric of some media outlet. Ever been in a detention centre and found out for yourself? Nah didnt think so! And finally how can my post be racist? Definition: a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others Dont see any racial superiority there, just arguement against the portrayal of a situation. You my friend stand judged by your own ignorant thoughts and beliefs. Have a look in the mirror and you can play spot the fool. Link here
Pay attention!
by Benny	2006-12-13 4:31 PM +0900
501s aren't seeking asylum. They are people jailed at the Immigration minister's discretion. I am a refugee. I have friends inside Baxter. Link here
More shocking stuff by a frightened little man
by Mark B	2006-12-13 6:37 PM +0900
Back in the early 1950s, Australia was one of the prime movers in the drafting of the United Nations Refugee Convention, with its promise of sanctuary for those in "genuine fear of persecution" in an uncertain postwar world. We proudly joined the first 26 nations to sign the accord. Now, Australia is an arrogant and increasingly exclusive enclave that pays lip service to human rights conventions while presuming a place on the moral high ground in international affairs. Tampa, children overboard, Christmas Island, Woomera, Baxter, Manus and Nauru are the roll call of our shameful descent over recent years into crude and selfish expedience. Now West Papua has to be added to the list. Under the "Pacific Solution" we bent the rules - intercepting asylum seekers before they reached Australian territory, packing them off to regional camps beyond the letter of the refugee law and, even when legitimate refugee status was determined, granting only temporary protection visas. Under the "Pacific Solution" we are tearing up the rule book: sending offshore everyone who arrives in Australia "illegally" by boat, denying them legal assistance and refusing to accept any for settlement, even if they are found to be genuine refugees. While it is appropriate for the Government to defend the immigration program against fraud, and to stop opportunistic illegal entry, there is no evidence that the latest upheaval over West Papua justifies such a draconian policy shift as the Government has unveiled. Link here
Secret Government Business
by Auntralia: Chronic Universal Neo-Tyrants	2006-12-13 6:49 PM +0900
No journalists are allowed into Australia's six immigration detention centres. Those people who are allowed in - such as doctors, nurses and lawyers - are often reluctant to speak to the media for fear that it may jeopardise their future access to the detainees, or their future contracts with either DIMA or the private company that runs the camps. Link here
DefFx - Foot in Mouth
by King Brown - an insider	2006-12-13 6:54 PM +0900
A 501 is not a "visa class". Do some research fellah. Theres a link in the article above that points to MIGRATION ACT 1958 - SECT 501. Have a quick read: http://austlii.law.uts.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ma1958118/s501.html "your comments of being "jailed indefinitely" or "no access to a lawyer" or "ignoring basic health needs" all these comments are patently incorrect." Ah. No mate. It is true. There have been many reports about this stuff. Jailed indefinitely kinda means detained without an end in sight. Some are still in detention after 5 years. They still have no idea when they're gonna get out. In other words - at no fixed time = indefinitely! "they do have access to legal representation (witness the huge industry around detainees legal claims)" Wrong again. Most cases, when asylum-seekers eventually do get to see a legal rep who speaks their language (which can take months, even years) are taken up by lawyers as Pro-Bono cases. Besides migration agents and lawyers, there is no "industry". "and they have access to health care and have health workers on site." Incorrect. Doctors are contracted in from Pt Augusta. This is very limited too, and every single refugee I have spoken to has told me of the dire lack of basic care. Read this recent report into the Immigration department. It is a litany of abuses: http://www.comb.gov.au/commonwealth/publish.nsf/Content/mediarelease_2006_15 And, mate... You don't need to be a refugee or a visa-overstayer to be jailed by DIMA. On 6 December the Commonwealth Ombudsman released three reports relating to the immigration detention of 20 people during the years 2000 to 2005. Ten of the 20 people covered in these reports were Australian citizens at the time of their detention; each spent between two and 214 days in detention... Read it here: http://www.amnesty.org.au/Act_now/campaigns/refugees/features/ombudsman_calls_for_changes To find out more about Baxter Detention Centre, you can actually phone the maximum security prison complex directly: PHONE - 08 8641 8900 - You can talk directly to the Baxter staff. Go on - get your facts right from the horses mouth, mate. For the latest statistics on Immigration detention: http://www.immi.gov.au/managing-australias-borders/detention/statistics/immigration-detention-statistics.pdf I agree with AZADI (Farsi for Freedom) Link here
snake in the grass
by DefFx	2006-12-14 12:47 PM +0900
King brown has a wonderful grasp of stats and believes he heard it from the horses mouth. Lets check his horse talk for real fact! 501 is not a visa class - correct, it is a section of the migration act and effectively like some other sections it provides a reason for detention, in fact no persons in immigration detention should be current holders of a valid visa. "Jailed indefinitely kinda means detained without an end in sight. Some are still in detention after 5 years". Jailed indefinitely doesnt "kind mean" anything it means jailed without potential release. Ever asked yourself why some people are still in detention for that period of time? wouldnt have something to do with exhausting every single legal avenue and appealing numerous adverse decisions would it? Or perhaps some people cant own up to who they really are and immigration officers cant positively identify them. Anyway if we are going to quote legalise lets go for it: here just one example of a set period inacted in legislation. MIGRATION ACT 1958 - SECT 65A Period within which Minister must make decision on protection visas (1) If an application for a protection visa: (a) was validly made under section 46; or (b) was remitted by any court or tribunal to the Minister for reconsideration; then the Minister must make a decision under section 65 within 90 days starting on: (c) the day on which the application for the protection visa was made or remitted; or (d) in the circumstances prescribed by the regulations--the day prescribed by the regulations. "Most cases, when asylum-seekers eventually do get to see a legal rep who speaks their language (which can take months, even years) are taken up by lawyers as Pro-Bono cases. Besides migration agents and lawyers, there is no "industry". Detainees have access to legal advice when they request it, no if's or but's, they want taxpayer funded legal representation then they need only ask. Interpreters are available and provided for translation if needed. The industry of legal sharks is paid for by DIMA both to assist the refugee applicants in tribunals and courts and also to defend DIMA against cases brought by these persons and their "friends". Need proof? have a look at DIMA annual reports and see how much is spent on legal aspects. Try and finance a high court appeal yourself and see if you can afford more than a day or two.Lucky that the taxpayes pays for all the refugees cases then isnt it! they have access to health care "Incorrect, Doctors are contracted in from Pt Augusta" well hullo isnt that providing health care on site? Duh! "And, mate... You don't need to be a refugee or a visa-overstayer to be jailed by DIMA. On 6 December the Commonwealth Ombudsman released three reports relating to the immigration detention of 20 people during the years 2000 to 2005. Ten of the 20 people covered in these reports were Australian citizens at the time of their detention; each spent between two and 214 days in detention... " And what were the other ten? not Australian citizens? Unfortunately if people are unable to substantiate their status then it makes matters somewhat difficult for authorities to release them after apprehension. Especially when you consider the circumstances of their initial contact with authorities such as Rau who (knowingly)provided no ID and no address and appeared to be a foreign national. Lack of any link to Australia, IE drivers licence, address details, passport, bank account etc etc or refusing to tell the DIMA officers this information so they can check your status appears to provide reasonable grounds to believe that the person may not be an Australian and should be detained until that can be properly assessed. More legalese: SECT 189 Detention of unlawful non-citizens (1) If an officer knows or reasonably suspects that a person in the migration zone (other than an excised offshore place) is an unlawful non?citizen, the officer must detain the person. For the purposes of section 189, an officer suspects on reasonable grounds that a person in Australia is an unlawful non?citizen if, but not only if, that person fails to provide a personal identifier, under subsection 192(2A), of a type or types prescribed. Yes King brown you can talk to detainees and they can tell you stories however bear in mind that they have a vested interest in getting better and more services for themselves in detention. Supposedly they are all trying to escape the very bad place that they had to flee from, and yet its amazing how quickly they forget that they are guests until accepted. Riots, vexatious complaints, ignorant demands and criminal damage seem to be acceptable to a percentage of these potential citizens. IF its really so bad in detention then they need only go home or to another country, Australia will pay the fare!. IF it's not bad enough to do that, then dont abuse Australia while we try to assess the wheat and the chaff and provide accomodation, food, and health and welfare at no cost. King Brown, you can agree with who you like, but like your arguement that doesnt make it factual. Link here
No Borders No Nations No Deportations
by King Brown	2006-12-14 2:17 PM +0900
DefFx, you can agree with who you like, but like your arguement that doesnt make it factual. Link here
Looking for any excuse to further persecute
by XfFed	2006-12-14 2:26 PM +0900
Like all those who argue for even worse conditions for refugees and others locked inside that shithole without trial or charge, really hates refugees. Why? What the fuck has happened to the spirit of a fair go in this country - let alone the concept of humanitarian rights, or even the basic notion of compassion for your fellow man. Australia is a mean son of a bitch if some of the comments above are anything to go by. Why are you such an arsehole? Link here
Hmmm
by shayne	2006-12-14 3:11 PM +0900
I get the strong feeling Def Fx has never actually been to baxter. No one who's been there comes away with anything less than the impression that something is deeply fucked up about the place. Link here
This thread is confusing - but I'll have a quick response to DefFx
by King Brown - the original	2006-12-14 3:46 PM +0900
"Ever asked yourself why some people are still in detention for that period of time?" Ah yes. Its because they are incarcerated, my friend. Tey like can't get out dude. There are bars, cameras, guards with batons, and thousands of volts between detention and freedom. They CAN'T get out. Thats the whole point of the argument - they are locked up - in what amounts to a maximum security prison - except these conditions are WORSE than a normal jail. "wouldnt have something to do with exhausting every single legal avenue and appealing numerous adverse decisions would it?" Yes indeed. Glad you pointed that out. This is exactly what these checks and balances in law are for. To make sure people trapped by law get a fair go. Remember that nearly all those appealed Visa decisions, which I assume you are reffering to, have resulted in Visas for asylum-seekers. Some 98% of cases off the top of my head. These chances to appeal are neccesary. They are part of the system of legal rights. "Or perhaps some people cant own up to who they really are and immigration officers cant positively identify them." Interesting: 'people cant own up to who they really are' Can you tell me where this has happened? Normally, DIMA officers cannot speak the language of those applying for a Visa. This results in all sorts of confusions. Many cases have been wrongly processed because DIMA got it wrong, or because of the systemic DIMA culture of failure and neglect. Have you read the recent report by the Ombudsman, the Palmer report or any of those commissioned over the last 5-6 years into the mistakes and inhumanity of the government process. I'll upload the reports if you like. Or point you in the direction... "Anyway if we are going to quote legalise lets go for it: here just one example of a set period inacted in legislation. MIGRATION ACT 1958 - SECT 65A Period within which Minister must make decision on protection visas (1) If an application for a protection visa: (a) was validly made under section 46; or (b) was remitted by any court or tribunal to the Minister for reconsideration; then the Minister must make a decision under section 65 within 90 days starting on: (c) the day on which the application for the protection visa was made or remitted; or (d) in the circumstances prescribed by the regulations--the day prescribed by the regulations." Huh? Why did you paste that? What relationship does it have with the discussion here? "Detainees have access to legal advice when they request it, no if's or but's, they want taxpayer funded legal representation then they need only ask. Interpreters are available and provided for translation if needed." Correct - and people are indeed provided - eventually. But this takes time. Time where you are incarcerated. Time where you are treated like shit by the guards. Who seem to act as though you are guilty of a crime - even though you have not even been charged! "The industry of legal sharks is paid for by DIMA both to assist the refugee applicants in tribunals and courts and also to defend DIMA against cases brought by these persons and their "friends". Need proof? have a look at DIMA annual reports and see how much is spent on legal aspects." Legal sharks? Why do you call them sharks? So, how much is spent? Which DIMA report? Which year? We can talk more about this issue if you like... "Try and finance a high court appeal yourself and see if you can afford more than a day or two" Yes. You are right. Its very expensive. I personally couldn't afford it. "Lucky that the taxpayes pays for all the refugees cases then isnt it!" Lucky? But it isn't "luck". Its Australian judicial process. Its part of living in a modern humane society, where you are presumed innocent until proven beyond doubt to be guilty - where you are entitled to help wade through the legal quagmire created by the govenment. Nevertheless, the basic argument to all that is - don't lock people up in the first place! "they have access to health care "Incorrect, Doctors are contracted in from Pt Augusta" "well hullo isnt that providing health care on site? Duh!" Yes it is, I guess, when they do eventually get there. Repeat: There is no doctor at Baxter - which I presumed you were implying in an earlier comment. There are also no psychiatrists or mental health specialists - they come up from Adelaide every few months. Hardly enough considering the situation. "And, mate... You don't need to be a refugee or a visa-overstayer to be jailed by DIMA. On 6 December the Commonwealth Ombudsman released three reports relating to the immigration detention of 20 people during the years 2000 to 2005. Ten of the 20 people covered in these reports were Australian citizens at the time of their detention; each spent between two and 214 days in detention... " And what were the other ten? not Australian citizens?" Fact is: 10 were Aussies! Read the report and get the facts for yourself mate - when you have, present them back to me, if you are going to enter into a reasonable dialogue. I'm not going to argue with myself! "...consider the circumstances of their initial contact with authorities such as Rau who (knowingly)provided no ID and no address and appeared to be a foreign national." Knowingly? She was mentally ill. On March 17, 2004, Cornelia slipped away from the psychiatric wing of Manly Hospital but within days she lost her new passport issued at the German consulate in Woollahra a few weeks earlier. By late March, Rau was trapped in Immigration detention and was locked up without decent care for nearly a year. What happened next has a definite if warped logic to it: a woman turned up at Cape York in the middle of the rainy season calling herself Anna Brotmeyer or Anna Schmidt. She said she was a German backpacker who had overstayed her time in Australia. She announced first to the police and then to the honorary German consul that she wanted a new passport and wanted to go home. The 10-month saga of this woman's mistreatment at the hands of the Immigration Department is so rich in appalling detail it is easy to lose sight of the simple strategy that lay behind it all: to leave Anna behind bars, her health failing, until she revealed the details needed to issue those fresh papers. This approach was not invented for Anna. We're talking standard practice here: the recalcitrant remain locked up until they co-operate, forever if necessary... With respect to David Marr for that. "Lack of any link to Australia, IE drivers licence, address details, passport, bank account etc etc or refusing to tell the DIMA officers this information so they can check your status appears to provide reasonable grounds to believe that the person may not be an Australian and should be detained until that can be properly assessed." Yeah. But did she need to be detained for nearly a year? "More legalese: SECT 189 Detention of unlawful non-citizens (1) If an officer knows or reasonably suspects that a person in the migration zone (other than an excised offshore place) is an unlawful non?citizen, the officer must detain the person. For the purposes of section 189, an officer suspects on reasonable grounds that a person in Australia is an unlawful non?citizen if, but not only if, that person fails to provide a personal identifier, under subsection 192(2A), of a type or types prescribed." Again, whats the deal? Why cut n paste that? "Yes King brown you can talk to detainees and they can tell you stories however bear in mind that they have a vested interest in getting better and more services for themselves in detention." Well, I also talk to real health workers, real government officials, real journalists, real detention centre officers, real human rights advocates and hey even the actual detainees themselves. But the fact is they don't WANT to be in indefinite detention. They want Freedom. AZADI. "Supposedly they are all trying to escape the very bad place that they had to flee from, and yet its amazing how quickly they forget that they are guests until accepted." They, they, they - always a them and us situation innit? so easy. These are PEOPLE - like you, like your Mum and like your Nanna, your child. These are real people with real persecutions. A refugee's life is so far removed from anything we Perth suburbanites can imagine. "Riots, vexatious complaints, ignorant demands and criminal damage seem to be acceptable to a percentage of these potential citizens." What do you mean by that? I'm not too sure I understand the point? Either way, people all over the world protest. Its part of the human condition. If the environment in which you are forced to endure is fucked - then you'd rise up against it. Wouldn't you..? "IF its really so bad in detention then they need only go home or to another country, Australia will pay the fare!. IF it's not bad enough to do that, then dont abuse Australia while we try to assess the wheat and the chaff and provide accomodation, food, and health and welfare at no cost." So your logic is: Lock up refugees, and treat them like shit until they plead to be deported? "King Brown, you can agree with who you like, but like your arguement that doesnt make it factual." What do you mean "agree with who I like"? You make little sense. Link here
Gulag
by Toroski guish	2006-12-15 8:01 PM +0900
Please to you no always say like GULAG and in GULAG I was in gulag and you writers Insult me and my comrade who die. we no get paid watch movie go to bathing pools play footballs eat in morning night i dont like peoples detained but is not gulag is hotel dont insult us who did survive by say Gulag or stalag Link here
Toroski guish to you responding
by Grandmothernazi	2006-12-16 6:59 PM +0900
irregular grammatical transformations, use of 'pop' cultural identifiers (ie. comrade) and mixed foreign words (ie. gulag or stalag) = yet more impersonation. People who have been imprisoned do not say "is hotel". Having your freedom curtailed by people with stacks more power than you sucks infinitely more than losing your TV. Link here
I wish I could say Latte Im dying for a coffee.
by gordonT	2006-12-18 8:37 AM +0900
yes one must look out for people of different nationalities, they do tend to use irregular grammatical transformation not like us good old Australians who are able to write in any native tounge while adhereing to all their granmmatical nuance. nuance sorry i appear to have used a mixed foreign word or one derived from one. but that is quite okay unlike these ethnics us Australians are well travelled and we mix with other cultures and adopt new words. Grandmotheemazi i'm afraid your covert condescending racist slip is showing. With that i'll sign off with a Pop cultural identifier Cya Mate! Link here
impersonator or not...
by Ray	2006-12-19 1:04 AM +0900
Anyone who can say that Baxter is a hotel, regardless of their experience, hasn't been there and knows nothing about it. As someone who has been there twice and has friends who were detained there I can say that it is a terrible place that no person should have to ever experience. Anyone with any sense of humanity should be able to see this. azadi Link here
Dont Mess Your Country Up Like Us
by James	2006-12-19 9:30 AM +0900
I live in the UK, and over here in the last 20 years since people have been claiming asylum here the problems in the country have just grown and grown. Crime, AIDS, Terrorism Etc! 99% of people in the country wish they had done something a long time ago, now they are trying to get rid of over 500,000 failed asylum seekers and illegal immigrants, although the real figure is well over 1,000,000! On average it costs £11,000 ($27,000 Au) to remove each failed asylum seeker/illegal. That’s not to mention approximately 50,000 still arriving or overstaying here each year and we can only seem to deport around 30,000 with around 10,00 leaving voluntarily. So we are still gaining 10,000 every year. There are just not enough detention spaces here at present to remove anymore. So what do we do give them free accommodation and benefits to live else where and who fits the bill? The hard working tax payer! And people wonder why we have no money to build new schools and hospitals and why crime is always rising? Believe me Australia Mandatory detention is the only answer, otherwise in 20 years time your standard of life will drop and unfortunately HIV, AIDS and Crime will all rise. It’s not too late for the UK to sort out, it’s just going to take many years and billions of pounds The UK is only small in comparison to Australia, Value your own space! Link here
But
by James	2006-12-19 9:43 AM +0900
That doesn’t mean that some people shouldn’t be granted protection status if there is actually a definite risk that there life is in danger if they return but when it is safe, even if its 6 months or 6 years later then still return! The problem is too many people bullshit just because they want a better quality off life. Why not stay in your own country and try and help it develop and grow rather then taking the easy way out? Link here
FFS
by Refobustr	2006-12-19 10:44 AM +0900
"Why not stay in your own country and try and help it develop and grow rather then taking the easy way out?" BECAUSE ASYLUM SEEKERS ARE FLEEING PERSECUTION!! Link here

by Gordon T	2006-12-19 12:00 PM +0900
Oh please, fleeing persecution, some are i agree the vast majority are not. that vast majority are in all likelhood sitting in border processing centres on the continent and african sub continent. not paying to be smuggled in here after passing freely through numerous counries...in a lot of cases living in them for years. before deciding to move on to perceived greener pasture. yes support genuine refugees by all means but dont do them the diservice of comparing them to a lot who are chancers landing on our shores and beguiling you with their charm. dont continually say what government or country would put these people and families behind bars. in stead ask what parent would keep their children behind bars when it is their choice to leave when they wish. they were obviously not detained at there embarkation point and should return. Link here
FACT
by Mythbuster	2006-12-19 12:06 PM +0900
In Australia, over 90% of all 'boat-people' have been granted Protection Visas to stay here in this country. Link here

by Gordon T	2006-12-19 12:16 PM +0900
Did i say their ploy doesnt work. our system is flawed by its virtue of being overly PC and this is what is eventually used against us our psyche doesnt handle people throwing themselves at fences and self harming etc etc and we succumb. and still they sit in refugee camps while we process these bogus claims Link here
WHO ARE REFUGEES?
by Black Bilby	2006-12-19 12:21 PM +0900
Entering Australia without a visa is not a crime under Australian law. Under international law refugees have the right to seek asylum using any available means. WHO ARE REFUGEES? The 1951 Convention relating to the Status of Refugees (and its 1967 Protocol), to which Australia is a signatory, defines a refugee as: "Any person who owing to a well founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his/her nationality and is unable, or owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself/herself of the protection of that country. The important parts of this definition are: that the person has to be outside their country of origin; the reason for their flight has to be a fear of persecution; this fear of persecution has to be well founded (ie they have to have experienced it or be likely to experience it if they return); the persecution has to result from one or more of the 5 grounds listed in the definition; they have to be unwilling or unable to seek the protection of their country The United Nations body responsible for protecting refugees and overseeing adherence to the Convention is the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR). REFUGEE COUNCIL OF AUSTRALIA http://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/arp/faqs.html#whoref Link here
Clarity Please - not more myths
by reffo_bustaz	2006-12-19 12:26 PM +0900
To Gordon T What do you mean by "overly PC"? What do you mean by "bogus claims"? Link here
Typical
by This PC Thug	2006-12-19 12:35 PM +0900
Gordon T has no real idea of the situation. By maintaining a distance from those less fortunate, as we need to do in order to perpetuate the violence of a capitalist democracy, Gordon can happily rant away. This doesn't stop the pain and suffering from happening. If he only knew of the way refugees are treated, then perhaps he may change his tune. Close these hideous places immediately. Burn them to the ground! Its just so bloody easy to pontificate a hardline stance from your computer. Or from the political podium. Note that the grande perpetuator of this inhumanity, John Howard, (and Amanda Vanstone for that matter) has NEVER even set foot inside Baxter - or ANY of our Gulags. Link here

by gordon T	2006-12-19 3:31 PM +0900
Assumptions yet again, I have rarely maintained a distace from those less fortunate and have have had day to day dealings with numerous refugees and have been inside australias centres as well as the british. i have had the misfortune to see the affects of genocide and war as we welcomed people into border camps at their gestation stage. I've cried tears with people who have lost their whole families and agree we support refugees. my point is do not muddy the water these people still need our help, but im sorry to burst your bubble these are not the people i saw laughed and cried with. Link here
Senseless but interesting
by reffo_bustaz	2006-12-19 3:45 PM +0900
Huh? What are you trying to say? I notice you refuse to elaborate on the meaning of "overly PC" - What exactly do you mean by this? I am very interested in how you managed to have "been inside australias centres as well as the british"... Now, whilst what you say may of course be true, I find that very difficult to believe. Tell me, what do you think of the Woomera IDC; Pt Hedland; Baxter; Curtin; Villawood etc. What did you do in these places? Also, which people, according to your assumed vast knowledge of Refugee Rights, do "not need our help"? Who? If you can't answer very simple questions put to you, as has already happened in this thread, then your argument is entirely invalid. This is not dialogue, mate. It is pure unsubstantiated drivel - little more than xenophobic junk. Link here
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