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|
email the perth indmedia mob...
This newswire is for stories from overseas..
"But you don't look sick!" - snapshot of a man with HIV/AIDS |
| by Mega E |
2005-05-02 12:14 AM +0800 |
| This article is a reflection of my own personal experience with the many changing faces of HIV -- the ways in which, depending on my health and the sporadic circumstances of HIV, my body image has gone up and down. It is a snapshot that encompasses the good, the bad and the ugly of looking good and feeling bad. |
"But you don't look sick!" By Thom, Gay.com Network
The good:
-- It's nice to be told that I look good rather than sick.
-- I can still "pass" in public as a healthy-looking individual.
-- Looking good helps with the depression that comes with HIV.
-- I can still get laid looking good.
-- People will still date me.
-- I get cruised at the gym.
-- There are treatments to help me manage my looks.
-- People don't stare at me trying to figure out if I have HIV or not.
-- I grow stronger spiritually because I have a funny feeling that the bad things I've heard about will come at some point and HIV will change my image.
-- I've found people and HIV organizations with compassion to help me deal with my future body changes.
-- My friends love being around me.
The bad
-- I wish the person telling me I don't look sick had some idea what my life is really like.
-- Some people have abandoned me because I don't pass as a healthy person.
-- Side effects from drugs suck.
-- I get talked about at the gym because I am getting "the look."
-- I don't get laid as much looking sick.
-- Depression is bad.
-- I realize how ill-informed the general population is about HIV.
-- I find out who friends are and who are simply giving lip service.
The ugly
-- Some people give up on you, or they just get scared and run away.
-- I become judged by what I cannot do and fully understand being stigmatized by AIDS.
-- Some people feel that if I do not look sick, I most likely am not sick. And if I am not sick, why can't I perform up to the standards of those around me who are healthy?
-- I learn to give up competing with the disease and trying to "pass." I sleep when I need to sleep; eat when I need to eat; get up and change the sheets from night sweats as needed; buy tons of toilet paper for the diarrhea when Cost co. has a sale; pray I have medication without interruptions from bureaucracy; pop a compazine pill to calm nausea; soak my feet from the pain.
-- I don't get laid if I look like I have AIDS.
-- Depression is ugly.
-- When all the scared friends ran away, I found out who my real friends
were.
..... |
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Link here
|
Perth Group |
| by John G. |
2005-05-02 6:08 PM +0800 |
Hi Thom,
maybe these doctors can help you to understand your situation better.
wishing you all the best!!!
Email: vturner@westnet.com.au
Fax: Int + 618 92241138
Voice (EPE):+Int + 618 92242500
Write: Eleni Papadopulos-Eleopulos
Department of Medical Physics
Royal Perth Hospital
Wellington Street
Perth
Western Australia 6001
http://www.theperthgroup.com/index.shtml
Link here
|
Please. Thats just irresponsible. |
| by shayne |
2005-05-02 6:56 PM +0800 |
John, dont be so damn irresponsible.
Those people have been abusing medical positions to push a minority crank agenda for ages (For reference theres a doctor in fremantle that does 'aura healing' along side the usual GP stuff) and people could get killed by it.
See a GP. They know best.
Link here
|
Indeed.. |
| by Ray |
2005-05-03 2:10 AM +0800 |
What is even more ugly than any of that is having AIDS and having some idiot tell you that you really don't and that it is simply "propaganda".
What a load of wank!
Anyway, good luck mate.
Link here
|
Pozhealth |
| by Dennis |
2005-05-03 4:02 AM +0800 |
Thom,
here is a website, perhaps you could contact the people running it and ask if they know of a qualified doctor in your area. The best doctors are those who understand both: ARV´s AND natural health. Maybe a contact to people who have similar experiences might be helpfull to you.
Wish you well...
http://www.pozhealth.org/
Link here
|
Useful information |
| by Questioning AIDS |
2005-05-03 6:19 AM +0800 |
Dennis and John,
I'm glad you're giving people options to look into. I know if I had ever tested positive that the standard drug-regimen would never have been an option. Strange and upsetting that there are those who would not want others to find out that there are other ways of viewing AIDS and HIV as well as alternative, health-enhancing treatments.
Link here
|
Don't fall for it, Thom |
| by Wilhelm Godschalk |
2005-05-03 7:05 AM +0800 |
Thom, there are many people just like you. They are feeling sick and depressed because some unconscionable doctor has told them, on the basis of a meaningless test that they have been 'infected' with a phantom virus named HIV. It works very much like a voodoo curse. The next step is to systematically poison you with anti-retroviral chemicals until death follows. There are plenty of victims, though, who just didn't buy it. They refused the murderous treatment, and they are living a full and healthy life. I have met many of them myself.
Letting yourself be tested for this imaginary virus was a serious mistake. But it's done now, so you have to live with it. The first thing you have to do is flush your medicines down the toilet. Then stop and wonder if anything in your present lifestyle could be threatening your health. For example: Are you drinking excessively? Cut it out! Are you taking any street drugs? For heaven's sake, stop that foolishness! Are you getting insufficient sleep? Correct that habit. And then... Live happily ever after, as so many before you have done. And let that doctor who gave you those toxic antiretrovirals go to hell. Get a doctor who cares about his patients' health, not about their 'viral load'.
There are many dissident websites where you can meet other gay men who have gone through the same hell as you're going through. You will never find any posts from the so-called 'AIDS-experts' on the debate forums. They leave that to flunkies who believe the whole fraudulent AIDS story without ever having seen one iota of scientific data supporting it. Well... You've seen the posts from Shayne and Ray.
Do your own thinking. It's YOUR life. And good luck to you. I wish you well.
Link here
|
oh for god sake. |
| by shayne |
2005-05-03 8:12 AM +0800 |
"They leave that to flunkies who believe the whole fraudulent AIDS story without ever having seen one iota of scientific data supporting it. Well... You've seen the posts from Shayne and Ray."
Do you really have to spout this shit?
Its bad enough, that your effectively asking people to commit suicide, but to do so by abusing others as being misinformed is just scurrilous.
We know HIV has been identified both in elecron microscope imagery and more importantly thru DNS sequencing , so among ACTUAL scientists, its existance isnt a matter of contraversy.
And We know that HIV has a 1:1 statistical mapping to the symptoms, without fail and exception.
And we know the symptoms never showed up as a complex prior to what is believed to be the ground zero time for the epidemology of the disease, yet the behaviors have existed for maybe a hundred years prior to the symptoms ever being observed.(HIV denial industry seeks to blame the symptoms on the lifestyles[can anyone say 'homophobia'?] rather than on the virus)
These add up to a scientific certainty. An absolute one.
This is a life affecting issue. Stop fucking people with quackery.
Link here
|
ssshhhhhh. |
| by shayne |
2005-05-03 8:45 AM +0800 |
also, hep c is an absolute bugger to see with an electron microscope.
government conspiracy or alien brainwashing? YOU DECIDE!
ssssshhhhh. they can hear us!
Link here
|
"Certainties" |
| by Questioning AIDS |
2005-05-03 9:09 AM +0800 |
"These add up to a scientific certainty. An absolute one."
Well, Shayne, never has one sentence and a fragment of one ever convinced me so thoroughly of anything. I'm not sure WHAT, but it seems to hammer some sort of point home.
Where's that EM picture I ask for on this thread and another thread as well? Where's the corresponding data and lab work that goes along with that photo? Haven't seen it yet. I don't think you're going to be able to show it to me either.
I'm glad there are people out there (Perth Group, Duesberg, Mullis, Maggiore and so on) that have the courage to ask questions about the basic science behind HIV=AIDS. I'm glad I'm listening to them with a critical ear. Nobody's got it all figured out, but at least they're asking good, basic questions. YOU, on the other hand have all of the answers. Hmmm.
Link here
|
|
| by shayne |
2005-05-03 9:18 AM +0800 |
Oh for fuck sake you loop. Ive posted 3, one (which you people rejected because , er , pseudocoloring is another example of the conspiracy or something) and a link to another 2.
If you want the scientific data, go to http://scholar.google.com and do a bloody journal search.
I'm not resident scholar here. Do a journal search and find the evidence yourself. Its there. Thousands and thousands of articles worth. Pretending it isnt and hoping it goes away isnt science. Its lazyness.
I have neither the time nor the inclination for this boorish nonsense. The quackery is oozing from this thread. Outa here.
Link here
|
take of your tinfoil for a moment and answer me this.. |
| by quak |
2005-05-03 2:17 PM +0800 |
How do you explain the African situation?
Link here
|
A few questions |
| by MrChristopher |
2005-05-03 3:03 PM +0800 |
Several questions for Shayne.
Could you please show us some EM photographs of 'HIV' from sucrose density gradients?
Pictures of particles in unpurified cell cultures are worthless because the body expresses retroviral like particles which visually are indistinguishable from retroviruses. Perhaps you could also explain why neither Montagnier or Gallo published EM photographs of the 'purified' density gradients back in 1983 and 1984. Any good scientist claiming the term 'purified' would need to back this assertion up with visual evidence.
Another question. When an antibody reacts to a protein in the Western Blot, what tells you it's an 'HIV' induced antibody?
Another question. Which set of criteria correctly points to 'HIV' infection? Meaning, which band pattern indicates a true positive and which a false positive.
Another question. Why does 'HIV' descriminate against gay men and IV drug users in the West, but is partial and even preferential to straight folks in Africa?
Chris
Link here
|
cut it out |
| by shayne |
2005-05-03 3:15 PM +0800 |
Look.
I wont dignify the electron microscope answer of your too fucking lazy to read my post. But heck, I'll repeat I posted one , and links to two more. If you dont accept pseudocolor, then you are welcome to open it in photoshop and take out the hue in the photo. Failing that take it up with the scientific establishment. I couldnt be fucked justifying standard practice.
You already made your slanderous allegations against Montagnier (remember the one where he pointed out HIV denial is like Holocaust denial? Wilfully ignorant and destructive of lives)
Regardless, he pointed out that this quackery of 'purification' is misleading. Rarely anything will be identified as 'pure', which is why its not the standard he used. He *REFINED* it. Big difference, and in line with standard microbiological practices.
As for the other questions, feel free to use google scholar, or medline or whatever you prefer and look it up. I am not going to do your research for you so quit it with the somophoric questioning.
As for the last question, YOU TELL ME! Its YOU mob that are pushing the homophobic lifestyle causes of aids jibbajabba.
I'm NOT answering any more of this crap.
Link here
|
A few more questions for Shayne or others... |
| by MrChristopher |
2005-05-03 3:18 PM +0800 |
Another question for Shayne. You stated, 'HIV denial industry seeks to blame the symptoms on the lifestyles[can anyone say 'homophobia'?] rather than on the virus'
Question. If a gay man is repeatedly using crystal meth, would criticizing his behavior be considered homophobic? If he loses his job because of drug abuse would criticizing this behavior be considered homophobic? Yes or no.
Question. You said 'HIV denial industry'. The term 'industry' presupposes that 'HIV denial' is a commodity and that someone is profiting from it's 'sale'. Could you please show where an 'industry' is profiting from 'HIV denial'? I could show you where 'HIV belief' is an 'industry' and also that is makes huge profits.
Chris
Link here
|
And several more questions... |
| by |
2005-05-03 3:35 PM +0800 |
Another question for Shayne. How did Montagnier know there was even one single retroviral particle in their 'purfied' (their term, not mine) density gradient? Even after a 'roman effort' (his term, not mine) he nor his collegues could find a retrovirus in their density gradients by EM. So how can something be 'purified' and also not contain a retrovirus?
With regard to EM's of cell cultures of so-called 'HIV', even Montagnier agrees that pictures alone are incapable of distinguishing a retrovirus from a retroviral-like particle.
HE STATED: "We published images of budding which are characteristic of retroviruses. Having said that, on the morphology alone one could not say it was truly a retrovirus"
SOURCE: http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/dtinterviewlm.htm
I'm prepared to debate this subject, but it seems you are not. At present your posts seem more bluster than rational debate for the orthodox standpoint.
Perhaps we can start at a simple level. Do you know what an antibody is?
Chris
Link here
|
last response. |
| by shayne |
2005-05-03 3:38 PM +0800 |
NO MORE RESPONSES AFTER THIS, BECAUSE *NO* I DONT WANT TO DISCUSS THIS, JUST LIKE I DONT WANT TO DEBATE WHETHER THE EARTH IS FLAT.
Montagnier has already explained this to you mob. You even have the email on your site where he does this.
And yes I know what an antibody is and no I dont apreciate you insulting my intelligence , dickhead.
Stop harassing me.
Link here
|
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. |
| by Mohandas Gandhi |
2005-05-03 8:08 PM +0800 |
They also call your 'loops', swear at you and claim your harassing them.
Link here
|
The orthodox folks rest assured |
| by |
2005-05-04 1:05 AM +0800 |
Well it seems Shayne has done quite an admirable job of representing orthodox science, they all must be resting sure to have such a mighty intellectual dynamo on their side.
And since you have such a complete understanding of antibodies, you must also know they have a nasty habbit of reacting to things against which they weren't originally elicited. So how does one tell when a 'real' reaction is happening as opposed to a 'false' one?
Why do I have a funny feeling you don't know.
Link here
|
Harassment. |
| by An Editor |
2005-05-04 1:42 AM +0800 |
You have been asked to stop harrassing shayne. Please read the editorial policy, and stop now.
Link here
|
more aids debates going on |
| by Hugo Webber |
2005-05-04 2:28 AM +0800 |
for anyone who wants to read more with an OPEN MIND ..... here are some links with aids discussions taken place at present. You may find answers to some of the questions raised here.
These debates show, that HIV-AIDS is not an issue which follows the conventional leftwing - rightwing lines but that there are more and more people who want to know the TRUTH.
TRUTH can only be achieved, if ALL relevant facts are taken into consideration. With regards to HIV - AIDS the general public has been told what serves the interests of the big PHARMA companies and their associated PR agencies...
23rd April 2005 = AIDS CRITICS DAY / Letter to the Editor
http://perth.indymedia.org/index.php?action=newswire&parentview=10037
(with contributions and similar comments like here)
Anniversary of a Medical Tragedy
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/04/316077.shtml
(Portland Indymedia placed this article on the FRONTPAGE)
AIDS: the Fabricated Epidemic
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1394741/posts?q=1&&page=1#1
(The FREEREPUBLIC is a conservative media outlet in the USA)
HIV=AIDS 'hypothesis' pt.3
http://www.sydney.indymedia.org.au/front.php3?article_id=53128&group=webcast
( a lengthy debate started on 24th March 2005)
Why Bono and HIV/AIDS Inc will be stopped
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=68548
(going on since 9th February 2005)
23rd April 2005 = AIDS CRITICS DAY / Letter to the Editor
http://southafrica.indymedia.org/news/2005/04/8033.php
(including relevant links and info about the medical situation in South Africa)
Link here
|
Cumulative 'AIDS' figures in Canada |
| by Paul King |
2005-05-04 5:49 AM +0800 |
Cumulative 'AIDS' figures in Canada
What is interesting is that there have only been 65 teenage cases since 1983 in Canada. Also the 20 to 25 age group is very low too.
This is similar to the U.S. and does not fit an std.
Like America, people over 60 have as much 'AIDS'
(611 cases) as both teenagers AND 20-24 years olds combined (65 teen cases and 573 cases in the 20-24 group).
Seems once again Grannies are going wild!
http://www.avert.org/canstatr.htm
Link here
|
'MEDS' not 'HIV' - The real killer |
| by Paul King |
2005-05-04 5:53 AM +0800 |
'MEDS' not 'HIV' - The real killer
Don't believe what the drugs companies tell you.
WITHOUT HAART 'MEDS"
“These long-term nonprogressors [Hiv+ people who remained healthy] are a heterogeneous group with respect to viral load and HIV-1 responses…none had been treated with antiretroviral agents.”
AIDS Research and Human Retroviruses, 12: 585 (1996)
– Harrer, Thomas, et al, Aids Researchers
NOT ONE USED HAART
“Subjects: homosexual men in Amsterdam. “None of the LTAs [long-term asymptomatics–people who remained healthy]…received any antiviral drugs during the study [7 years].”
“Ten HIV+ people; 11-15 years infected; non-progressors [i.e., healthy]; maintained stable T-cell counts above 500. “These long-term nonprogressors…all showed the same risk factor (sexual exposure), and all had...virus...and none had been treated with antiretroviral agents.”
AIDS Research and Human Retroviruses, 12: 585 (1996)
– Harrer, Thomas, et al, Aids Researchers
Journal of Infectious Diseases, 171:811 (1995)
– Hogervorst E, et al, Aids Researchers
_________
__________
WITH HAART
“…Choosing between many of these [HAART] combinations is, therefore, increasingly dependent upon knowledge of antiretroviral toxicities...[which include] myopathy [gross muscle atrophy] (zidovudine [AZT]), neuropathy (stavudine, didanosine, zalcitabine; hepatic steatosis and lactic acidaemia (didanosine, stavudine, zidovudine); and possible also peripheral lipoatrophy and pancreatitis (didanosine)...drug hypersensitivity... lipodystrophy...[including] peripheral fat loss (Presumed lipoatrophy in the face, limbs and buttocks) and central fat accumulation (within the abdomen, breasts and over the dorsocervical spine [so-called buffalo hump]...[and prevalent in] about 50% [of patients] after 12-18 months of therapy...Metabolic features significantly associated with lipodystrophy and protease-inhibitor therapy include hypertriglyceridaemia, hypercholesterolaemia, insulin resistance...and type 2 ...diabetes mellitus. Dyslipidaemia at concentrations associated with increased cardiovascular disease occurs in about 70% of patients. These metabolic abnormalities are more profound in those receiving protease inhibitors...Most cases of diabetes have been identified in recipients of protease inhibitors...Anemia and granulocytopenia affect about 5-10% of patients who receive zidovudine...Virtually all antiretroviral medications can cause nausea, vomiting, or diarrhoea early in therapy...Diarrhea is probably most common with protease inhibitors...Most antiretroviral agents have been associated with hepatic [liver] toxicity...Most protease inhibitors seem to result in increased rates of spontaneous bleeding (bruising, haemarthrosis, and rarely intracranial haemorrhage) in haemophiliacs... 25-35% of patients cannot tolerate [AZT monotherapy] or triple combination therapy for 4 weeks...”
Lancet. 2000 Oct 21;356:1423-0.
– Carr A, Cooper DA, Aids Researchers
BLINDNESS
“This study was conducted to determine the likelihood of the development of [immune recovery vitritis, IRV], which causes vision loss in AIDS patients with cytomegalovirus (CMV) retinitis, who respond to HAART. We followed 30 HAART-responders…Symptomatic IRV developed in 19 (63%) of 30 patients.”
J Infect Dis. 1999 Mar;179(3):697-700
CASTLEMAN'S DISEASE
“Recently, we observed an unusual cluster of cases of rapidly progressing multicentric Castleman’s disease. Fever, weakness, generalized enlargement of lymph nodes, and marked polyclonal gammopathy developed in three patients with AIDS...Two of these patients died within one week after the diagnosis, with generalized involvement of the lymphatic system, liver, and bone marrow at autopsy. A fourth patient with AIDS who died equally rapidly after the diagnosis of multicentric Castleman’s disease had been seen in our hospital 14 months earlier... symptoms…started after the initiation of highly active antiretroviral therapy in these three patients.”
N Engl J Med. 1999 Jun 17;340(24):1923-4
– Zietz C, et al, Aids Researchers
– Karavellas MP, et al, Aids Researchers
DEATH
“…Of the 70 patients studied, 84% were still alive after the 3-month study period...17 surviving patients (24%) had HAART regimens discontinued due to drug intolerance and 11 (16%) expired [died] during the study period...”
J Pain Symptom Manage. 2001 Jan;21(1):41-51
NERVE DAMAGE
“The antiretroviral drugs currently licensed in the United Kingdom [June 1996] are zidovudine (azidothymidine [AZT]), zalcitabine (ddC) and didanosine (ddI). All three are nucleoside analogues...All are very toxic. Suppression of bone marrow elements can occur with any of the three, as can peripheral neuropathy [nerve damage].”
Adverse Drug Reaction Bulletin. 1996 Jun;178:675-8.
– Ellis C.J., Leung D., Aids researchers
“A decrease in mtDNA [DNA of the mitochondria; the energy regulating entities within every cell] content was found in HAART-treated HIV-infected patients with peripheral fat wasting in comparison with subjects in the control cohorts...Lipodystrophy with peripheral fat wasting following treatment with NRTI [Nucleoside Reverse Transcriptase Inhibitor]-containing HAART is associated with a decrease in subcutaneous adipose [under the skin fat] tissue.”
AIDS. 2001;15:1801-9
– Shikuma CM, Hu N, Milne C, et al, Aids Researchers
‘These drugs are as dangerous as chemotherapy,’
“7 HIV patients presenting LD [Lipodystrophy, all taking antiretroviral therapy] and 5 HIV non-LD controls participated in the study…Structural muscle abnormalities, mitochondrial respiratory chain dysfunction or mtDNA deletions were detected in all HIV lipodystrophic patients. The mitochondrial abnormalities found suggest that mitochondrial dysfunction could play a role in the development of antiretroviral therapy-related lipodystrophy. ”
AIDS. 2001 Sep 7;15(13):1643-51
– Zaera MG, et al, Aids Researchers
“Combination drug therapy, or the triple-drug ‘cocktail’…often provokes severe side effects… ‘These drugs are as dangerous as chemotherapy,’ warned Dr. James Kahn, UCSF associate professor of medicine…”
– Science Daily, Sep 4, 2001
SEXUAL DIFFICULTIES - Body distortions
“[Chapters in this guide to HIV drugs are entitled Introduction, Appetite loss, Body distortions (lipodystrophy), Bone death and destruction, Cardiac concerns, Diarrhea, Fatigue, Gas and bloating, Hair loss, Headaches, Insulin resistance and diabetes, Kidney stones, Liver toxicity, Muscle aches and pains, Nausea and vomiting, Nightmares, daymares and sleeping difficulties, Pancreatitis, Peripheral neuropathy, Skin problems, Sexual difficulties, The end]”
– A Practical Guide to HIV Drug Side Effects, CATIE, 2002
HEART ATTACKS
“Use of protease inhibitors was strongly associated with the likelihood of having a myocardial infarction [heart attack] and correlated with diabetes mellitus and hyperlipidaemia.”
Lancet. 2002 Nov 30;360(9347)
– Holmberg SD, et al, Aids Researchers
Link here
|
Requiem for a closed mind |
| by Wilhelm Godschalk |
2005-05-04 6:05 AM +0800 |
Shayne, you say you're not a resident scholar here. Well, I am, and so is Mr. Christopher. All the evidence you are so full of simply doesn't exist. Yes, there are thousands of publications. They are all from hapless scientists who can only get their work published if they also pay tribute to the AID$ mafia. None (repeat: none) of these papers prove that HIV exists or that AIDS is caused by a virus. Acknowledging this fact, is this denial? Well, so be it. I'm in denial of the existence of the devil and the boogyman also.
I never encouraged anyone to commit suicide; on the contrary, I pointed out there is life after a positive 'HIV-test' You, on the other hand, choose to side with a pack of murderers. Who's doing the quackery here?
You started to piss everybody off, Shayne. And now you're complaining that we're bugging you? Grow up.
Link here
|
|
| by MrChristopher |
2005-05-04 6:39 AM +0800 |
Dear Editor, my appologies if Shayne took offense at my questions. Please note also the tone of our posts and the use of language such as 'dickhead' 'fuck' 'fucking'. I must wonder who's harrasing and who's doing the harrasing.
I'll refrain from asking questions (harrasing) him anything from this point on.
Chris
Link here
|
Killing Indymedia Credibility |
| by an ed |
2005-05-04 1:36 PM +0800 |
Why is it that arguments like this - such as the "no pentagon plane crash" scenario - always demand that we prove your science!?! Get Real!
Shayne hasn't pissed anyone off - YOU have! By spamming and multiple posting using different psuedonyms across the entire indy network. All this while Right Wing Hackers are attacking our sites.
You guys are really pushing at the boundaries of credibility here, and be reminded that "Posts which are obviously incorrect or misleading, includes attempts to spread disinformation or to impersonate another individual" will be hidden.
You should take the time to read our editorial policy:
http://wiki.perthimc.asn.au/indyperth/EditorialPolicy
cheers
an ed
Link here
|
delete. |
| by an ed,. |
2005-05-04 6:21 PM +0800 |
Deleted post. Revealing personal information about indymedia member. NEVER DO THIS.
Currently due to hackers, parts of the system are down. This will be fixed eventually.
Heres the temp link to the policy
http://perth.indymedia.org/index.php?action=wiki&page=ed%20policy
Link here
|
AIDS Debate at the British Medical Journal |
| by Hugo Webber |
2005-05-04 7:42 PM +0800 |
May i mention that HIV-AIDS has been debated for years at the BRITISH MEDICAL JOURNAL and that many doctors worldwide are concerned...
Reviews / Press
HIV misinformation
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/321/7263/772?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=aids+dissidents&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1115204904569_6348&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=1
various contributions
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/search?loct=ehom&andorexactfulltext=and&resourcetype=1&disp_type=&sortspec=relevance&author1=&fulltext=aids+dissidents&volume=&firstpage=
The politics of AIDS in South Africa: beyond the controversies
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/eletters/326/7387/495
( this page loads really slow because it is a lengthy debate which stems from 2003 )
So why shouldn´t it be ok, to discuss the various points on a general forum like here?
Please consider, if we were to campaign i.e. for animal rights, there is by now a wide range of publications who would print something or even actively support a given campaign.
But does anyone reading here actually understand what it means to be labelled hiv+ and then one is told that highly toxic substances like AZT etc are the only cure offered by orthodox doctors. Then one learns, that many hiv+ people are living better without AZT and by taking a positive approach to life plus a mixture of natural remedies can be a better option as compared to the so called "aids cocktails"
Just for moment, due you really understand what it means if your circle of friends becomes smaller and smaller, because one is classified with the stigma HIV=AIDS=DEATH
And so please, take a closer look into the scientific SUBSTANCE of what is debated and lets leave 9/11 or flying saucers out of this debate.
Link here
|
To the Editor |
| by Wilhelm Godschalk |
2005-05-05 12:48 AM +0800 |
Dear Editor,
I am sorry if I upset the applecart somehow. I assure you though, that the discussion was genuine. The people taking part in it (QA, dennis, quak, Mohandas Ghandi, Paul King, Mr. Christopher, Hugo Webber, and I) are definitely different persons, not even even living in the same country. So no spamming under different names has taken place on our part. Please don't think we are of the same ilk as the hackers, spammers and pranksters who can make life so difficult for forum administrators. I am sure Paul King could tell you some good war stories about that.
It was never my intent to violate the editorial policy. My apology if I did.
Cheers, Wilhelm
Link here
|
No need to attack Shayne for not wanting to argue... |
| by al - a perth indy ed |
2005-05-05 1:26 AM +0800 |
But please bear in mind:
We're an editorial collective. Any decisons/actions made are transparent and discussed for conensus whenever required. No one person is in control.
Due to evil-doer hackery the link to our Ed Policy is inactive - but theres a temporary link here:
http://perth.indymedia.org/index.php?action=wiki&page=ed%20policy
If you have any probs email our collective here: imcperth-editorial@lists.perthimc.asn.au
We're not going to hide this stuff. I reckon you have a right to present alternative views. Particularly if the discussion doesn't violate Perth IMC guidelines - ie racist, homophobic, disinformation etc... Read the Policy.
But I personally feel your tactics of flooding a newswire enmasse with an eight-person tactical response comment team is a bit vain.
To be frank, we're recovering from having our arses hacked out over the weekend by right-wing cyber-goons, and have been bombarded with Nazi propaganda in the not too distant past.
We are a small mob of volunteers devoting massive chunks of our lives to this site, and to the adminstration of hundreds of other web-related projects.
Sometimes we get a bit toey. We are human.
:) Enjoy open publishing.
al
Link here
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Is asking questions dangerous? |
| by MrChristopher |
2005-05-05 1:39 AM +0800 |
Dear Editor, is simply asking questions wrong? I would expect a religious forum to expect members to believe the same things, not an alternative media forum.
Science is about asking questions, not stifling them. And in no way are we related to any hackers. What purpose would we have disabling a forum we're trying to have a discussion on?
An editor wrote, 'Why is it that arguments like this - such as the "no pentagon plane crash" scenario - always demand that we prove your science!?! Get Real!'
We are not asking that you prove 'our science'. 'Our science' is referenced from the mainstream medical literature that anyone can check and reference. In fact, we are pointing out flaws and errors that critical to HIV science.
For instance, we're not asking anyone here to prove that there is no standardization in the testing protocols for HIV. We're pointing them out and the ramifications of such a dilemma. For instance, the interpretive criteria for the HIV Western Blot used in the United States would be considered negative by Australian standards.
Our simple question is, who is right? The Australian criterion or the various American ones?
The reason I asked another participating member if he knew what an antibody was was because it's a known fact in immunology that antibodies can be terribly non-specific. This is known to have practical implications for diagnostic purposes and is critical considering the dire consequences of giving a person an HIV diagnosis.
A Pubmed search for 'antibody cross-reactivity' will reveal more than 19,000 hits on the subject.
We're interested in discussing valid information that anyone can check and cross-reference.
Chris
Link here
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Go for your life - You be the media mate |
| by Brother_X |
2005-05-05 2:07 AM +0800 |
Have fun Chris and the others - a perth imc editor :)
Link here
|
Hidden on the International wire? |
| by Cuddles |
2005-05-05 6:57 AM +0800 |
Interesting that it took 3 day's till it was determined that this crap was a "global story".
Indymedia at it's worst!
Cuddles
Link here
|
Global story |
| by Wilhelm Godschalk |
2005-05-05 8:55 AM +0800 |
It certainly is a global story, Cuddles. There is a lively debate going on all over the world. In North- and South America, in Europe, in South Africa (where it is especially vicious), and of course in Australia where one of the world's rare unbiased scientific institutions (known as the Perth Group) is doing AIDS research. By 'unbiased' I mean: Without undue influence by the government or the big pharmaceutical companies. Looks global enough to me. And by the way: From where I'm standing, it's Indymedia at its best.
Link here
|
THANK YOU PERTH INDYMEDIA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| by Hugo Webber |
2005-05-05 11:24 AM +0800 |
Dear Al and Brother_X and everyone at the EDITORIAL BOARD,
"We're not going to hide this stuff. I reckon you have a right to present alternative views."
A VERY BIG THANK YOU to all the members of the EDITORIAL BOARD here !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Particularly if the discussion doesn't violate Perth IMC guidelines - ie racist, homophobic, disinformation etc... Read the Policy."
Have you ever thought what kind of minority someone is who gets really ill? How it feels if someone is diagnosed hiv+ or hcv+ (hep-c) or comes home after a doctor has said: "You have cancer?"
IMO opinion, the various topics of health are not taken as THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUES that one can encounter. Once the personal health is gone, this very often results in a changing state of mind between being optimistic and sometimes being moody or even depressive.
By carrying this internal "weight" sometimes the productivity at work is reduced, means less money and if one wants to talk to someone, well it then shows who your real friends are...
"Have fun Chris and the others - a perth imc editor :)"
see below :-))
Many THANKS
Hugo
Ps: somehow my last post in the other thread got published twice, please delete one
--------------------------------------------------------------
pps: hope that these little stories may put a little smile in everyone´s face, as a kind of compensation for the rather controversial thread...
--------------------------------------------------------------
Patient: "Dr. Gallo, what I need is something to stir me up; something to put me in a fighting mood. Did you put something like that in this prescription?"
Dr. Gallo "No need for that. You will find that in your bill."
--------------------------------------------------------------
A patient, his name was "Chico" goes to see Dr. Gallo about stomach trouble.
Dr. Gallo prescribed plenty of milk and gave Chico a bottle of pills. "I'll stop by this evening and see how you're doing," Dr. Gallo said. "In the meantime, drink at least four glasses of milk. Milk is the ticket for curing your trouble. So drink plenty of it."
That evening, Dr. Gallo returned, examined Chico and told him, "You're much better this evening. Just be sure you don't drink any milk. Not one glass. It's not for you."
"But, Dr. Gallo," Chico exclaimed, "only this morning you told me that milk was what I needed and that I should drink four glasses of it."
"Well, what do you know?" the Dr. Gallo replied. "It certainly goes to show that we've made tremendous progress in medicine since the last time I saw you."
--------------------------------------------------------------
There was this city doctor (Dr. Gallo) who started a practice in the countryside. Dr.Gallo once had to go to a farm to attend to a sick farmer who lived there. After a few housecalls he stopped coming to the farm. The puzzled farmer finally phoned him to ask what's the matter, didn't he like him or somethin'. Dr. Gallo said, "No, its your ducks at the entrance... Every time I enter the farm, they insult me!"
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Gallo gave a guy six months to live. He didn't pay his bill, so he gave him another six months.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Link here
|
EEK not a board, man |
| by al - a perth indy ed |
2005-05-05 3:21 PM +0800 |
Re "EDITORIAL BOARD"
We're not a "board". We're not elected. There is no executive. No leader. No Power.
We are an Editorial "COLLECTIVE": we're a volunteer group of people from various bacgrounds organising around the issue of independent media dissemination. We exist together to accomplish the broad goal of reclaiming the Media Commons.
Our only power is the responsibility to the Perth IMC Editorial Policy - to maintain some credibility and integrity in the Passionate Truth-tellings" of independent media.
We maintain a non-hierarchical, transparent manner of organisation using the consensus process.
But we aint no board, baby.
Just wanted to point that out.
:)
a
Link here
|
No leaders? No power? |
| by Cuddles |
2005-05-05 7:04 PM +0800 |
Of course there are.
You may not strive to be leaders in relation to Indymedia and even reject the idea of possessing power in relation to it, but the mere fact that you on the editorial collective places you in both powerful and leadership positions.
Cuddles acknowledges and believes that you reject the concept of these twin evil's but unfortunatly it just ain't reality.
Cuddles
Indymedia trollble maker
Link here
|
Hi Cuddles |
| by an ed |
2005-05-05 9:21 PM +0800 |
We are transparent and open in our processes and strive for accountability. Within the editorial collective there are no leaders. We have rules but no rulers.
Do you want to be part of the collective? Please email us:
imcperth-editorial@perthimc.asn.au
We may also remove posts which are clearly "persistent nuisance posts to the newswire or comments sections"
Havent you anything better to do than attack us?
an ed
Link here
|
Logic |
| by Jim In Paradise |
2005-05-06 1:26 AM +0800 |
Hi Thom and Aloha from East Hawaii.
I can see you are being pulled both directions pretty badly right now over your posting. Sorry to see you go through this, but it's not avoidable.
The ones who rant in favor of the traditional model are "Ranting" if you look a the zeal and foot stamping they are exhibiting.
The ones who are re examining the basis for the epidemic are much more calm. I actually wish they would be more angry but I understand it. Once one 'Gets" what Christine Majorie and Duesberg are saying - Ya just get numb. You can't process it mentally, it's SO ABSOLUTELY FLABERGASTING.
My self I wish I could get angry but I have to come up tone before I can. I feel dumbfounded, now that I've refused my medications for a full year and I've not been hit with any Opportunistic Infections at all. My T cells dropped in half, which is under 200 but who cares if I'm feeling just fine.
I'm a 265 lb power lifter. Have been into this sport in a serious way for the last 6 years. If you have any "Wasting" issues, go get a copy of the book "Built To Survive" by Michael Mooney.
I'm built like a brick shithouse Thom. And no one has to endure the wasting that comes along with taking these ugly drugs. However it is best not to take them at all,if one has the drive to read Majorie's book, and judge what the numbers really mean.
My lover and myself got off drugs a year ago. He's 77 and I'm 50. We feel so much better than we have in so very very long.
This evening an event is happening here in East Hawaii. We are having a gathering at a local MD's home of 20 or so HIV and AIDS patients, along with some of the HIV doctors from our area. They will be watching The Other Side Of AIDS and having discussion after.
There are reasons to take what is being said to heart.
I wish you all the best health and happiness Thom -
My Motto over the years has been proven out -
"Life is Good"
Hugs - Jim Allegretti - Hilo, Hawaii
Link here
|
Pasta Salt |
| by Lazarus |
2005-05-06 1:43 AM +0800 |
Personally, with all this fine weather, I'll be voting for Jesus in the next Federal Election. He's got my vote! Since I stopped eating horse meat my jeans fit much better. Go the helmets and go with disco! My breath smells minty.
The Big Picture Book of Viruses: Retroviridae
scale pictures
Link here
Add multimedia to story
Add links to story
|
NO SIZE BAR at any of these "pictures" |
| by Hugo Webber |
2005-05-06 2:21 AM +0800 |
Hi Jesus Freak,
You can vote whoever you like, but STOPP confusing yourself and anyone else by using these pictures shown as "evidence" for the existence of HIV
This library here is used again and again, billions of times have images been reproduced to enhance an article, a HIV-Horror Story, a semi-scientific report or whatever...
http://www.virology.net/Big_Virology/BVretro.html
ALL NOT GOOD ENOUGH MATE !!!!!
read here what the PERTH GROUP say:
Only eight images are electron microscopic pictures and none identify the source or nature of the material photographed. Significantly, none have a size bar, that is, in no EM is it possible to measure the size of the particles or determine the dimensions of any other morphological feature. From the scientific point of view this is both highly unprofessional and unsatisfactory because the dimension of particles is critical to taxonomy. The best conclusion one can draw from the EMs (the other images are irrelevant) is the existence in unidentified cell cultures of minute quantities of matter, that is, particles of indeterminate size which also possess certain other morphological features. Since these are the pictures "we have been looking at all these years", let us examine the proposition "These EMs are a retrovirus HIV".
http://www.theperthgroup.com/FAQ/question3.html
lets see, what scientific substance remains about the so called photographic proof...
Link here
|
larger picture... |
| by Hugo Webber |
2005-05-06 2:31 AM +0800 |
Hi Jesus Freak,
here is the original enlargement of one of your images...
http://medstat.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/AIDS/AIDS001.
Is there anywhere a SIZEBAR ?
Link here
|
HIV? |
| by Questioning AIDS |
2005-05-06 7:37 AM +0800 |
What's the story behind these pictures? Where's the necessary documentation? How large are these particles? Where did they come from? Where they taken from uncultured plasma? Lots of basic questions need to be answered before simply being told that this is HIV. I would expect the same guidelines to be observed for other microbes. Pictures and hysteria simply aren't enough.
Link here
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Is Jesus running in the next Federal Election? |
| by Cuddles |
2005-05-06 9:15 AM +0800 |
Has this been confirmed?
*****
Hi an ed,
I don't doubt that you strive for accountability and a transparent and open process. I believe that mostly you do.
I was just stating that although you reject the concepts of "power" and "leadership" as members of an Indymedia collective it doesn't mean that you aren't in leadership and powerful positions by being members of that said collective.
The mere fact that you can pose veiled warnings such as:-
We may also remove posts which are clearly "persistent nuisance posts to the newswire or comments sections"
Highlights your status as people holding positions of power and leadership.
It's a conundrum for sure.
One that you must actively deal with?
Nah probably not with the exception of acknowledging that it exists.
So in summing up please don't construe my previous comments as attacks and secondly thanks for the work that you members of the collective put into the indymedia project.
Cuddles
p.s Oh and thanks but no I don't want to officially join the collective.
Link here
|
show us the PROOF of electron microscope imagery |
| by Hugo Webber |
2005-05-06 5:32 PM +0800 |
@ Shayne
First you abuse everyone, use foul language and now you chicken out of the debate ... which doesn´t mean that your onesided comments aren´t gonna be answered !!!
"We know HIV has been identified both in elecron microscope imagery"
show us the PROOF and I may reconsider my opinion... that so far "THERE IS NO PHOTOGRAPHIC PROOF of HIV"
please post NOT your opinion, but links to websites where one can control along the lines as specified by THE PERTH GROUP. Do you think that asking for clear parameters (like a SIZE BAR) to specify what can and what can not be used as "photographic evidence" is tooooo much to ask within a scientific debate ?
Link here
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conundrums? is that a band? |
| by al |
2005-05-06 8:44 PM +0800 |
its pretty clear to me. we try hard to abide by the policy of transparency, and the vaguaries of editorial policy - but then again i am part of the ed crew, and one of the founders of this site.
you may consider us to be powerful leaders, but i certainly don't feel like one.
i feel like a beer.
al
Link here
|
The Lazarus Aids Poem 01 |
| by Lazarus |
2005-05-06 10:06 PM +0800 |
We came forth in buckets of hot wax. We swam in extracuricular cirles. My epilogue is a cure for Santa. And Jesus stole my skin. All hail ye to the Rock-gods of cameras.
And ny stanzas are believed by the millions in groups of ballistic liars, travelling in groups to Perth for a retarded dramaturg of instant 9/11 questions.
We came. We talked. We talked in riddles and nobody wins arguments on the web.
scale pictures
Link here
Add multimedia to story
Add links to story
|
Hi Everyone |
| by Darryl Sommers |
2005-05-06 10:58 PM +0800 |
Well, I'm back from the dead, and no I didn't die from AIDS at all. I died of bad breath.
Its all so clear to me now that AIDS is a hoax. Golly Jeepers...
Was I ever born?
I wish I was a petrol tanker.
Link here
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AIDS is a hoax? What the Fuck! |
| by DJ_Bastard |
2005-05-06 11:02 PM +0800 |
Have some fucking respect to all those across the planet who have died horrible deaths from AIDS/HIV.
To those of you trying to disprove reality. Go somewhere else and lie.
Bastards.
Indymedia is losing credibility over this one.
Link here
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Re: AIDS is a hoax? What the Fuck! |
| by QA |
2005-05-06 11:24 PM +0800 |
DJ_Bastard,
wow, do I disagree with you about people who are questioning the HIV=AIDS hypothesis not having respect for those who have died in the name of HIV/AIDS. The people I personally know who are questioning this are extremely compassionate. They want this nightmare to end. They want the suffering to end, and for those who've been deemed "HIV-positive" to live in health. I couldn't disagree more with your view.
Link here
|
the deal. |
| by shayne |
2005-05-07 12:56 AM +0800 |
Look. Basically the whole HIV denial thing worries alot of us. But we have some basic rules here. No homophobia, racism or sexism.But this isnt really any of those, although it is fair to say, that it is a dangerous line that is being pushed.
However, I do have faith that most readers can spot the sort of argumentation going down here, and would recognise that where ad hominens, obscuritarianism and arguements from authority are used as a substitute for clear logic, its usually a pretty obvious warning sign to take it with a grain of salt.
Think net_paw.
Everyone deserves a voice, even the nuts in our society. I'd rather let them state there case and let the less bonkers among us point out the holes in it.
Link here
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Could you be specific |
| by MrChristopher |
2005-05-07 1:13 AM +0800 |
DJ_Bastard, a lie is predicated on knowing the difference between it and the truth. Could you be specific about what 'lie' we're using on this forum. And could you then please tell us how you know why whatever that is is a 'lie'?
Chris
Link here
|
Chris |
| by DJ_Bastard and the cancerous cell conspiracy |
2005-05-07 1:23 AM +0800 |
Sorry cant be specific. Dont want to be. Just know you guys are a rabid pack of timewasters intent on undermining the credibility of Indymedia's fucntionality. I am also under the impression that you may be here for more sinister motives.
Please expose your REAL motives for trawling the entire Indymedia network. What profit motives lurk beneath your criticism of AIDS research? What do you and your mates expect to gain from arguing with fuckheads like me?
You're like a flock of vultures.
Link here
|
please read about the toxicity of AZT |
| by Hugo Webber |
2005-05-07 1:42 AM +0800 |
"Have some fucking respect to all those across the planet who have died horrible deaths from AIDS/HIV."
@ DJ_Bastard
have you ever really read about the toxicity of AZT ?
Do you consider, that when the public is informed about "Aids-Death" that there are so called co-factors? Some of these are actually caused by AZT and similar substances...
----------------------------------------------------------
AZT: A Drug in Search of a Disease
AZT is not a new drug. It was not created for the treatment of AIDS and is not an antiviral. AZT is a chemical compound that was developed -- and abandoned -- over 30 years ago as a potential chemotherapy treatment for cancer. (108) Prior to the first AIDS drug trials in 1986, AZT had never been administered to human beings.
Chemotherapy works by killing all growing cells in the body. Many cancer patients do not survive chemotherapy due to its destructive effects on the immune system and intestines. Because of the damage it causes, chemotherapy is never used as a prevention for cancer, and is only administered for very limited amounts of time.
This label has appeared on bottles containing as little as 25 milligrams, a small fraction (1/20 to 1/60) of a patient's daily prescribed dose of 500 to 1,500 mg. (109)
Since cancer is a condition of persistently growing cells, AZT was designed to prevent the formation of new cells by blocking development of DNA chains. In 1964, experiments with AZT on mice with cancer showed that AZT was so effective in destroying healthy growing cells that the mice died of extreme toxicity. (110) As a result, AZT was shelved and no patent was ever filed. Twenty years later, the pharmaceutical company Burroughs Wellcome (now Glaxo-Wellcome) began a campaign to remarket AZT as an anti-HIV drug based on the idea that AZT would block the formation of HIV DNA chains. Glaxo-Wellcome won FDA approval for AZT as an AIDS treatment after one highly flawed study of only four months duration. (111)
Approval of this extremely toxic chemotherapy for use by AIDS patients was based on information that suggested AZT raised levels of T cells and therefore delayed the onset of AIDS indicator diseases. The rise noted in T cells was interpreted as evidence that AZT eradicated HIV in T cells, a concept for which there is no scientific proof. Although the study was halted before any long-term effects of AZT were known, proponents established that standard treatment with AZT should be continuous and lifelong.
A multitude of independent studies conducted before and after FDA approval, including the Concorde study -- the largest (1,749 subjects) and longest (three years in duration) study on AZT -- determined that AZT increases T cell counts only moderately and briefly without improving health and that it does not delay onset of AIDS indicator diseases. (112)
The brief rise in T cells noted when AZT use is initiated is due to the toxic nature of the drug and to the blood system's response to the destruction of bone marrow. (113) As AZT destroys bone marrow, the blood system attempts to correct this depletion by overproducing T cells, often creating more new T cells than the number found in a patient's blood prior to beginning treatment. But as the source of these new T cells -- the bone marrow -- is killed off by AZT, the level of T cells drops lower, ultimately causing complete destruction of the immune system. Individual tolerance to, and absorption of AZT determine length of survival on this toxic compound.
Following recommendations for "early intervention," one-third to one-half of HIV positives who develop AIDS do so only after taking AZT. Independent studies have shown that AZT actually accelerates clinical decline and decreases quality of life, at times even causing death before any AIDS-defining illnesses appear -- an occurrence officially described as "death without any preceding AIDS-defining event." (114)
The concept of "HIV mutation" has become a popular explanation for the fall in T cells observed in patients treated with AZT. Promoters of the mutation hypothesis assert that the positive effects of AZT are diminished by mutant strains of HIV that become resistant to the drug. There is, however, no scientific evidence to substantiate their claim.
In addition to destroying T cells, B cells and the red blood cells that carry oxygen throughout the body, AZT and other nucleoside analog drugs destroy the kidneys, liver, intestines, muscle tissue, and the central nervous system. Nucleoside analog drugs also interfere with the activities of mitochondria, the subcellular particles that are the energy factories of every living cell in the body. Mitochondria contain their own DNA which makes them vulnerable to the effects of nucleoside analogs.
Epivir (3TC), Zerit (D4T), Hivid (ddC) and Videx (ddI) are all nucleoside analog drugs prescribed to HIV positives as "antivirals." All are modeled after AZT, and all work in the same manner.
http://www.aliveandwell.org/html/aids_drug_fact/aidsdrugfact.html
ps: the founder of aliveandwell was on some of those aidsmeds and then decided to quit. She lives a healthy life and has two healthy children.
Link here
|
Dear Hugo and the ensuing barrage of critical fuckknucklery |
| by DJ_Bastard |
2005-05-07 1:54 AM +0800 |
I consider that cut n paste arguments are futile excuses for conducting dialogue. Anyone can do that mate.
Didn't you know that HIV was engineered at a US military laboratory in Fort Detrick, Maryland by splicing together two other viruses, Visna and HTLV-1.
The new virus, created between 1977 and 1978, was tested on prison inmates who had volunteered for the experiment in exchange for early release.
It was through these prisoners that the virus was spread to the population at large, starting with the gay community.
Oh My God!
Link here
|
|
| by MrChristopher |
2005-05-07 2:12 AM +0800 |
Dj_Bastard, aside from profiting from a good, hearty laugh at your presupposotion that we're here to somehow make a profit from questioning AIDS, I'm surprised you think our motives are somehow monitary. On the other hand, I can readily show you that the AIDS industry is ripe with financial profits. For instance, Glaxo has made a fortune by poisoning people with AZT.
I've never made a dime by pursuing alternative information on HIV/AIDS.
With regard to not being specific about what we are supposedly lying about, I have a sneaking suspicion that it's not because you don't WANT to be so much as you are simply UNABLE to be more specific. It's easy to throw out breathy and bitchy accusations, but more difficult to actually phrase them in a logical construct.
In other words, saying that we 'lie' without backing it up and then claiming you can't back it up says more about you than it does about us.
Chris
Link here
|
|
| by MrChristopher |
2005-05-07 2:34 AM +0800 |
DJ_Bastard, do you have evidence that 'HIV' has 'spread to the population at large'? Where is the epidemic of 'HIV/AIDS' in white heterosexuals in the West (including Australia).
And, if this so-called virus was created between 1977 and 1978, then how can there be individuals with positive antibody responses to it prior to that time period?
Chris
Link here
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ABOLISH the AIDS CENSORSHIP !!!!! |
| by Hugo Webber |
2005-05-07 4:20 AM +0800 |
@ DJ_Bastard
"Please expose your REAL motives for trawling the entire Indymedia network."
The various people posting all have their own individual reasons, so I cannot speak on behalf of everyone as a group who sit`s together, dicusses a given topic and then decides on a "common policy" We live in various countries and some may know each other personally, however most of us only know about each other through various internet forums.
So let me explain my personal motivation for posting here.
On the 23rd April 2005 I posted here at Portland Indymedia. See here >>
23rd April 2005 = AIDS CRITICS DAY / Letter to the Editor
http://perth.indymedia.org/index.php?action=newswire&parentview=10037
Without repeating now this whole string: My main personal motivation is to ABOLISH the AIDS CENSORSHIP !!!!!!!!
There are scientific debates i.e. at the British Medical Journal (BMJ) and other media outlets. There are quite a few aidscritical books that you can buy from amazon or other publishers. There are a growing no. of websites where you can read about the various topics, etc.
BUT MAINSTREAM MEDIA, with few exceptions, doesn´t publish anything to do with any of the given questions or warnings from doctors worldwide.
I cannot re-write in every post a lengthy article. Thats why I copy and paste a short section and supply the URL. This is standard practise. By doing so, people can then decide wether to read more or not. So leave any other speculation out, it is of now relevance.
The reason I have posted here in Perth, has to do with the PERTH GROUP who I recommend highly. This Group has been debating a lot longer then I have known about any alternative concepts.
On the 02.05.2005 Thom posted his initial message above and the debate took place up until now.
I don´t know Thom personal, not even by email but do feel in solidarity because i can understand some of his lines.
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-- I realize how ill-informed the general population is about HIV.
-- I find out who friends are and who are simply giving lip service.
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Now I am not representing any political organisation or any other group, but I am not the kind of guy who publishes a "Letter to the Editor" and then reading his "Cry for Help" and not responding... No way !!!
So all I am doing here, is offering some support for someone in need. Thats my motivation. Wether Thom has any benefit from any of the links posted here or not... he has to decide this. Wether some comments are helpfull or not. That´s his choice.
None of us is making any money out of spending time here and I don´t think that anyone is even thinking along those lines. Those who are posting this could perhaos come up with some figures as to how much the official "aids industry" has been making over the last 21 years...
Worldwide there are about a dozen or so debates going on, similar to here. But I don´t have the time to be involved in everyone myself.
These debates do not only take place at Indymedia Platforms, but also at other outlets where the Moderators allow such a debate.
See here at a conservative platform >>
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1394741/posts?q=1&&page=1#1
Or look a bit closer what you can find at the International Newswire here at Portland Indymedia.
Brazil stands up against US moral imperialism >>
http://perth.indymedia.org/?action=newswire&parentview=10275
Http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1394741/posts?q=1&&page=1#1
These BRAZILIEN NEWS have not been posted by me, but it shows that there are a lot more people "RETHINKING AIDS" then you are probably aware of.
Now let me explain, in this case "OUR SOCIAL SITUATION" being labbeled hiv+ and/or hcv+
There is a bigger lobby for animals in a given zoo, then for us. We are not only classified as "outcasts" even worse, we have been given the "new star of david" because most people react without even thinking: "He´s got hiv+ ... He is going to die anyhow".
Now just check with your own concience how many times you have been thing like that???
Many people will pull back when they hear about "AID$" A hiv+ diagnose often results in a breakup of a given relationship. One cannot talk at work about it. A partially "social isolation" is the consequence which you can only understand, if you either do medical or social work with hiv+ diagnosed people or you are branded yourself.
But we HAVE THE RIGHT TO DEFEND OURSELF !!!!!!!!!
We HAVE THE RIGHT to decide which medication helps and which is poisening.
Now consider that here or at other open media outlets a few thousend messages or news or passing through every year.
Is it really to much to ask to have one or two discussions going on where we publish our views without being harrassed by some stupid comments?
Am I asking you to change your hairstyle or go and buy some new shoes?
Do i say that you should listen to some other music, than the one you favour at present?
Do you realize, that HIV-AIDS is neither a black or white problem, but has different faces in each country?
Aren´t the partially hysterical comments posted here an indication of your OWN insecurity?
And let me quote from "Shayne" from the other string:
"Look I agree that AZT etc are nasty remedies. But lobbying people not to take medication is down right irresponsible."
"Shayne" You are aware of the toxicity of the various aidsmeds, but you keep talking as if you were a salesrep for a given pharma company and are maybe even installing your fear into some of your mates...
Just take the number of lines (lets say a hundred) you have posted so far. Now if one is labbelled hiv+ then it looks completely the other way around.
I want to spend 90 lines out of a hundred on debating the toxicity from aidsmeds and 10 lines about statistics or other stuff.
I don´t want to know, if someone told "Shayne" to take any of those aidsmeds himself how your reaction would be ?????
In this respect, Dear Thom
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-- Side effects from drugs suck.
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I cannot reduce your physical side-effects, but my personal intention is there to at least lessen a bit the burden of your EMOTIONAL PAIN
Kind Regards
Hugo Webber
http://www.think-fitness.de/html/emotional_pain.html
Link here
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Thanks for the pictures, Lazarus |
| by Wilhelm Godschalk |
2005-05-07 9:01 AM +0800 |
In addition to the elctron micrographs you presented, I would like to add one that I found:
What do you think, does that look HIV or what?
scale pictures
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| by |
2005-05-07 9:03 AM +0800 |
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/ICTVdb/Images/Ackerman/Phages/Microvir/238-27-2.jpg
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Its all a conspiracy |
| by DJ Bastard |
2005-05-07 12:22 PM +0800 |
Dr. William C. Douglas, among others, believes that the World Health Organization created the AIDS epidemic by administering contaminated smallpox vaccines to people in third world countries--including African locations--between 1966 and 1977. Dr. Robert Gallo, famous for isolating HIV, lent conditional credence to this theory when he said, "the link between the World Health Organization vaccination program and the [AIDS] epidemic in Africa is an interesting and important hypothesis. I cannot say that it actually happened, but I have been saying for some years that the use of live vaccines such as that used for smallpox can activate a dormant infection such as HIV".
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Dear Clive |
| by DJ Bastard and the malicious attempts at trollism |
2005-05-07 12:27 PM +0800 |
Aids is a real thing. Like Coke, money and toilets.
Link here
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"Robert Gallo has credibillity" What a JOKE |
| by Saidrick |
2005-05-07 4:55 PM +0800 |
"Dr. Robert Gallo famous for isolating HIV"....What a JOKE..The only thing robert gallo is famous for is THIEVING another reaserchers material, then DOCTORING it and PROCLAIMING it as his own......Dr. robert gallo is nothing short of a THIEVING, CHEATING, FRAUDULANT LIAR!
Anybody who KNOWS!! anything about robert gallo would KNOW this.....To suggest that robert gallo has credibillity is laughable...get real!!!! I find the act of typing this putrid mans name into this post insulting to my intelligence......DO YOUR REASERCH AND MOST IMPORTANTLY THINK FOU YOUR SELVES!!!!!!!!!! Sidrick
Link here
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more reality |
| by DJ Bastard and the urban legend machine |
2005-05-07 5:01 PM +0800 |
Dr. Gary Glum claims in his book Full Disclosure, that he received top secret information that AIDS was made in the laboratory at Cold Spring Harbor, New York. The virus was spread by putting the AIDS viruses into the smallpox eradication program by the World Health Organization, and that AIDS did not exist before 1978.
AIDS, he claims, was created for population control--especially of Blacks, Asians, and other colored people. The people who control the project were people known as the Olympians (another name for the Illuminati), who are also supporting eugenics.
Organizations such as Red Cross are, according to Glum, complicit in the conspiracy by not testing blood properly. Glum reports that AIDS can be transmitted through kissing, mosquito bites and casual contact.
Link here
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supply scientific DATA for a given "photo" |
| by Hugo Webber |
2005-05-07 10:04 PM +0800 |
Comment on any of the "photos" posted here:
What is the exact date and time a given "photo" was taken?
Who took it? ( name of person)
At which Lab was it taken? (name of lab and country of origin)
What is the source material? (from a healthy person or an ill person or from animal)
When was the source material extracted? (the date of extraction does not have to be the same day as the day a photo was made)
Was the material "tempered" i.e. "purifiers" or other chemicals added?
What was the temperature when a photo was made?
What kind of camera was used?
How old is the camera?
Who ordered to make the picture?
Where was the picture first published?
Is there any peer reviews?
These are just some of the criteria, which one needs to establish what conclusions one may draw from a given image...
But again and again a story is published and some of those images added and most people don´t question the validity of such an added image.
Link here
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More pictures |
| by Wilhelm Godschalk |
2005-05-08 5:15 AM +0800 |
Al good and well, Hugo, but I just found two more electron micrographs:
scale pictures
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HIV does not equal AIDS and does not equal death |
| by Robin Canuck |
2005-05-08 1:53 PM +0800 |
I am an "HIV+" gay man in Canada and can also relate to Thom's story. I would add that us "HIV+" face discrimination in multiple forms including travel restrictions and the "aggressive assault" charges being used in the UK, Canada and US against "HIV+" people who do not fully disclose their status as part of consent in sex. In terms of access to health care, I feel the "HIV+" face iatrogenocide from allopathic medicine and in Canada there is little alternative supported by the state. Although it has long been known that what is common among longterm non-progressors is that they did not use AZT or other AIDS meds, those of us who choose not to take "ARVs" or jump on "HAART" are neither supported by our doctors or our "patient adovacate" groups. Most people and media pretend we don't even exist. Our rights to not to take drugs well known to kill and to cause side effects like Thom's diarrhea is not being respected by governments, media or doctors. I bet his depression is also related to his treatments, although I also know the health risks of a depression triggered by a "positive" diagnosis of "HIV" antibodies.
It is well past time that people woke up to the fact the current orthodox HIV and AIDS medicine is dangerous quakery. And it is time the general public faced up to the fact there is an AIDS rethinking movement and it includes doctors, scientists and completely healthy "HIV+" people who reject the "cocktails" shoved down their throats by big pharma, and continue to be alive and well.
The "HIV+" must do their own research on both sides of the question. Most of us have only been taught "orthodox HIV science" which amounts to a religion given the anomalies in the HIV=AIDS=Death paradigm. Everyone should read the Perth Groups FAQs. Inform yourself folks. HAART/ARVs will lead to early death and the side effects described in Thom's world.
Link here
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The more you look, the more you find |
| by Wilhelm Godschalk |
2005-05-09 5:38 AM +0800 |
Guess what: I managed to find three more!
scale pictures
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If It's Not HIV... |
| by Hugo Webber |
2005-05-10 2:16 PM +0800 |
"Aids is a real thing. Like Coke, money and toilets."
This is your personal perception, stemming as it seems from reading some books. But there are a few more books that have been written and they would not come to the same conclusion as Dr. G. Glum
"Glum reports that AIDS can be transmitted through kissing, mosquito bites and casual contact."
To be frank this statement is Bollocks and part of the "Myth".
If you were to care to read some other books, here is a list with a brief overview about the content.
http://www.think-fitness.de/html/aids_critics_books.html
Its like wittnessing a car accident on a crossroad. It depends if you watch this accident from the south, north, east or west or from a helicopter. And the difference of perception isevenbigger, ifyou are a passenger in one of the cars involved.
Christine Maggiore,who has gone through the "aidsmeds" and has found the selfhelp organisation "aliveandwell" has a different view then that of Dr.Glum...
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If It's Not HIV, What Can Cause AIDS?
Contrary to popular belief, HIV is not necessary to explain acquired immune deficiency and the illnesses associated with AIDS. To understand why this is so, it is first necessary to understand what AIDS is. AIDS is not a new disease or illness; it is a new name or designation for 29 previously known diseases and conditions. As the NIH states in its comprehensive report on AIDS, "the designation 'AIDS' is a surveillance tool."191 Since 1981, the surveillance tool AIDS has been used to track and record familiar diseases when they appear in people who have tested positive for antibodies associated with HIV.
The AIDS virus hypothesis supposes that the health problems renamed AIDS develop as a result of infection with HIV; that the virus somehow disables the body's defense system that protects against opportunistic illness, allowing the development of one or more of 29 diseases, such as yeast infection, certain cancers, pneumonia, salmonella, diarrhea, or tuberculosis, which are then diagnosed as AIDS. However, every AIDS indicator disease occurs among people who test HIV negative, none are exclusive to those who test positive and all AIDS diseases existed before the adoption of the name "AIDS."
Prior to the designation AIDS, these 29 diseases were not thought to have a single, common cause. In fact, all have recognized causes and treatments that are unrelated to HIV. For example, yeast infection is a widespread problem due to an imbalance of natural bacteria. The yeast infections that occur in people who test HIV positive and in people who test HIV negative are caused by the same imbalance of natural bacteria. All the opportunistic illnesses called AIDS have various, medically proven causes that do not involve HIV.
Immune deficiency can be acquired by several risk factors that are not infectious or transmitted through blood or blood products. The following factors are widely recognized causes of immune suppression, compromised health, and opportunistic infections, as documented in the medical literature for more than 70 years. Chronic, habitual and multiple exposures to these risks can cause the group of symptoms called AIDS.192 In fact, there is no case of AIDS described in the medical literature without one or more of these health risk factors.193
If It's Not HIV...
http://www.aliveandwell.org/
Link here
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bored |
| by troll bait |
2005-05-10 8:14 PM +0800 |
ho hum. havent you guys figured it out yet? theres like a whole group of you arguing with one troll on two stale threads.
Link here
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redox |
| by chemist |
2005-05-14 2:49 PM +0800 |
Why seems HAART to be "beneficial"?
Not why i acts as a terminator of retrotranscription, but why it contains 3TC, which is a sulfur compound, and reduces the deadly oxidizing azide group of AZT into (still toxic) amino or alkene groups . No need of a virus to understand that.
Link here
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Who's afraid of HIV ♪♪ |
| by Wilhelm Godschalk |
2005-05-18 7:43 AM +0800 |
Yes chemist, I agree completely. The best we can say about the HAART cocktail is that it is slightly less deadly as AZT alone. Can that be considered beneficial?
Frequently these days, you see a reasonably good scientific paper with valid data that lead to an obvious conclusion. But then, in the "Discussion" section, the authors suddenly put on a beanie with a propellor, and start trying to flimflam the reader into believing that there is a virus named HIV involved. In spite of the fact that all their results can easily be explained on the basis of the ordinary chemistry of metabolic pathways.
If I had to make a living that way, I'd rather shine shoes or clean parks.
Link here
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Following my heart |
| by SpiritEQ |
2006-01-27 4:46 AM +0800 |
Wow, I am stunned at the beautiful display of passion here. I am so thankful that people today are standing up for thier rights and "waking up." I wonder how many people with AIDS have died without taking any cocktail or AZT.
I am a man who has AIDS, or so-called. I have been on the drug for 2 years, and never wanted to be. I was HIV+ for over 10 years, and fine. Then I got very sick. I always denied the usage of drugs until I got very sick. I am not really sure what got me so ill, but I do know I had some bad physical accidents, and depression. I am curious how many people who have been or are HIV+ have died without using any drugs.
I know that I am stopping my drugs now that I have found my center and spiritual nutrition. I am convinced that the drugs I am consuming are only hurting my body.
We will see how it goes. I will keep you all informed.
One comment to everyone: try and be truly open minded when you read another's words. Cancel the knee-jerk reactions and comfortable quips and rebuttles and allow the new information to resonate within you. Each moment is gift to receive and cherish. We are here for each other, and to learn eternally.
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